Its our fault that we can’t hear him

26 09 2006

Why is silence so hard to deal with?

Why is it so much easier for us to live our lives with a lot of things going on all the time than to just be in silence?

We’re constantly surrounded with “voices” that are influencing us on how to think, feel, and behave. Movies, music, TV, Internet, cell phones, and a never-ending barrage of advertising. There’s always something going on. Always noise in our lives. But maybe there’s a connection between the amount of noise in our lives and our inability to hear God. If God sometimes feels distant to us, maybe it’s not because he’s not talking to us, but simply because we aren’t really listening.

I was reading about this guy name Bernie Krause, who records nature sounds for films and televisions. He was saying that, in 1968, in order to get one hour of nature sound, like no aeroplane no cars, it would take him 15 hours of recording time. And he was saying that today to get that same one hour of undisturbed sound, it takes him 2000 hours of recording time.

Why is silence so hard to deal with?

Did you know that 183 million people are regularly exposed to noise levels labeled as excessive by theEnvironmental Protection Agency.

Do you wish God’s voice would be louder in you life? or Does all the noise in our lives makes it hard to hear God?

“Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened and i will give you rest”

Jesus in Matthew 11:28(NIV)

If people are not still, and if they don’t listen, how is Jesus going to give me rest? I mean when was the last time that you spent some time in silence?

“Search your hearts and be silent”

Psalms 4:4(NIV)

Have you spent the same amount of time worrying and talking about your difficult, confusing situations as you have spent in silence, listening to what God might have to say? Are you one of those people that sometimes avoids silence because you are afraid of what God might actually have to say you?

Think about this, I mean is it possible that you have been searching for God in the winds…the earthquakes and the fires… and he’s been waiting to speak to you in the silence?

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46 responses

26 09 2006
croatiangirl19

I adore silent…
In this modern times most people are lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, unthankful, unforgiving, without self-control, headstrong, haughty an lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God. That means that they also don’t love themselves and other people.
The best example is our relation with the nature and planet Earth. We don’t respect the animal and plants enought. We don’t listen the sounds of nature.
The most of “modern” people hear only the sound of money and power..It’s sad..
Have you read the books “Conversations with God” …exist book 1,2,and 3, (author is Neale Donald Walsch) ? If you haven’t i’ll recomend you to read .it’s wonderful- especially because it “open our mind for real true”…
Now when i’am writing this post in west Europe is about 11:20 pm…and I suposse in Australia is about 7:20 am.. the difference is 10 hours…hehe
Ps. From which city are you?
Have you ever been in Europe?

ps..do you now some Croatians who lives in Australia and have the blog ..i asked that because
many people migrated there to find a better life…because of economic problems … if you know please write..
which music do you like?
do you maybe speak some other language?

27 09 2006
strider1989

1. No I haven’t read those books but they sound good so i’ll try to find them in the library
2.i live in sydney
3.No, i haven’t been to europe but i’m planning to go next year with friends.
4. no, actually i don’t know any croatians or that i know of. I knew one before but she was exchange and i thinnkk she went back to europe.
5.Music: I like everything but: RAP, R&B and some classical Jazz
Fav. bands: Pearl Jam die toten hosen (they are german may be’ve heard of them)
Metallica
Guns ‘n roses

Do u have email: this is very annoying trying to chat
Thank you
Keep in touch

27 09 2006
Hmmm

Or maybe he’s not just there… I mean when was the last time we saw him play a hand in reality? People say I succeeded *insert generic challenge* because my faith guided me the way. That what you want to think in my opinion, just a reassuring mentality that someone is always helping you and looking out for you. It is a chaotic and harsh world, so no wonder so many people look for some onious force to protect them .

27 09 2006
strider1989

In reality mate, what do u say to the fact that u, me, and everyone else in this world starts off as size of bean approx. 15 nanometres and turn out to be1.8metres long. when you think about it we take this as granted but just imagine, we as human get really freaked out when something infront us turns from 5 cm long to 4 metres long, consider this, we in our mummy’s tummy are approx. start off as 3 nm and taking me for instance, we end up being 1.8 metres tall. If god does not act as a driving force behind that then i reakon we wouldn’t be like how we are at this stage.
And the thing is that god doen’t say that the way you are going is wrong(except sometimes when it is wrong), he just says that ‘IF u choose my way, follow every step that i give u, do everything that i say, then success is sure. People get this wrong all the time. God wants us to cry to him. God wants us to come to him “all screwed up” and let him fix u.

Is anyone crying for help? God is listening, ready to rescue you

Psalms 34:17 (MSG)

We are his disciple, he chose us to spread his word not the other way around. I mean it’s still our choice but all he’s saying is that “i’m your rabbi, i’m your leader, how can you even think that i’ll show u the wrong way”. “Believe in me, trust me, have faith in me”

27 09 2006
strider1989

Just to add to you rakan, how is it that us humans can’t even build a robot that can imitate 1/4 of our characteristics, personality or movement over such long time, when we ourselves are such a briiliant creation, i mean look at us, every part in body(except the apendix) has it’s function, we are brilliant, we are a great creation of the LORD

27 09 2006
Tom

Wisdom teeth no longer have a function.

27 09 2006
croatiangirl19

Of course I’ve heard of Pearl Jam they ‘re great and this week they have a concert in my city- Zagreb but I’am not going…
My favorites are Bob Marley, Judas Priest, RHCP, Nightwish, AC DC, Depeche Mode DragonForce…

I’am agreed with you …I’don’t like R&B …RAP… I prefer rock, metal,punk and reggae…

Yes it really is annoying…to comunicate on this way.
I have MSN… my e-mail is nikolinaartic@hotmail.com… so you can write me if you want.
Lucky you …you can see kangaroos and koalas in a wild nature..but me..only in the ZOO..
I’now something about Sydney . it have Harbour Bridge, Sydney Opera House which is one of the most famous pieces of modern architecture in the world, I think there is Royal National Park, one of the oldest national parks in the world…by.

27 09 2006
strider1989

hi croatiangirl
nice to chat to u again
i’m hopefully be able to go the concert of pearl jam in AUS. in november.
umm. i’ll log u in as soon i’ve time
keep reading my blogs, god bless
talk to later

27 09 2006
croatiangirl19

ok ..by.

27 09 2006
strider1989

p.s i just logged you on
my email is: abhijeet_bhardwaj@hotmail.com

27 09 2006
Jill

I was a christian once. If you want to know why i gave up repenting and tore away from the whole tradition, I’d be happy to explain, only it may take some time.

Anyway, as a result of my christian days, bible quotes don’t work on me anymore.

Stating a quote from the bible as proof DOES NOT WORK. It is the equivelent to me stating a quote from anything, and saying that simply because this is written somewhere, even though I’m not completely sure who wrote it, under what conditions & for what reasons, or to what extent it has ben altered with time, it is UNDEBATEABLE FACT and therefore PROOF of what I’m saying. This is WRONG. Nothing is absolute fact. Ever. What I’m saying isn’t, what your saying isn’t. Its simply your SUBJECTIVE OPINION of what is truth/fact.

Dont get me wrong. I understand if you use a bible quote to demonstrate why you believe something. Using it as proof of what you believe is a different thing. (that said, using only a bible quote to demonstrate why you believe something is a little dependant and nieve, a lot like saying ‘i believe this because the book says it, and the church (or religious bureacracy, whatever you want to call it) told me its true’)

If there is a God, he’s got a cruel sense of humour and a manipulative voice. He’s more cunning than he is compassionate, more selfish than he is understanding. You don’t have to agree with me, in the same way that i don’t have to agree with you.

If anyone is to reply to this please do not lecture me on Christianity. I have experienced it first hand for some years and studied the religion objectively too. Infact im writing essays on it for my HSC, not to mention that major work. Trust me, i already have a considerable idea, probably more than most.

A few friendly pointers:
– The bible quote thing
– Maybe watch your language choice a bit – im not sure ‘win’ and ‘power’ are evangelistically ideal terms, come across a little competitive, victory driven.
– Dont ask people not to swear on here when you have sworn both in person and on your other blog REPEATEDLY. If you are to argue that you do not swear in person, do not pretend to on the internet.

Sorry if this comes across harsh, I am just ardent about the issue.

27 09 2006
strider1989

hey jill,
1. No one knows how the bible came across to us, but you of all people should know that, it’s a matter a believe. you do history, archeaogist find a lot of stuff that’s basically is based on believe. Like an e.g. right two weeks ago in india a ruin was found by three top archeolagists(can’t spell that word). they claim that “it’s 2milliion years old” but in the article they do not provide any amount proof at all. This is similar to the bible,no one has ever seen “Mattew, or LUKE, or i don’t know john” but take with the formost reason of believe. the quotes in the blog are not there to enfore the fact that “yes i’m right, follow these so called commandments or else The LORD himself will crush you” NO, the quotes are there simply to show people what i’m saying or showing them is not mumbo jumbo(hehe), it’s there. And again you would say ‘how do u know the bible’s correct’. I don’t it’s matter of believe.
2. This mights sound a bit harsh and i hope that we are still friends after, but you obviously have had no chance really truly to even get to know god. Because you technically contradict yourself, sayiing i have lost faith in christinaity and then saying that you have studied it more then anyone. NOway, i’ve definetly been christian much less longer than you have but already i am getting to see the bigger picture. Jill, how dare you even think he, the LORD himself harm you ‘more selfish than he is understanding’.In the modern day say you are a carpenter and for you to be an apprentice, you go to the owner or the manager, and you ask him to take you as his ‘disciple’ and as normal human, he would choose the best apprentice. He will ask you questions and if he likes you he will take you as his ‘disciple’, you do this becasue you look at the manager and you say he is good and i want to be like him. but he is only going to take the best. Take JESUS as your ‘manager’ or ‘owner’ did he ask any questions. Jill he chose us, we did not choose him, we did not say yes JESUS i would like to be like you take me as your apprentice. NO, and also he did not chose between the worst or the best. he let us all be his disciple. And you say that your master will even try to harm you. NO. People a lot of times think that ‘I believe in GOD’ but they forget that he is your manager “he believes in you, he trust you that you in all of the people will get through this”.
3. You say that god is more selfish than understanding. Jesus gave away his life for us, for all the sins that we created in this, like bubbling water in pan that’s just been rising and rising.
You say that god has a sense of humour and is manipulative. I mean, sorry jill, but how many time do we ask for something from god and then out of complete irony we suddenly have lost faith in him and then “Oh!, god is so cruel, he didn’t buy me that car” or “Oh! I hate god now because he didn’t give me 99% in maths”. How is it that god suddenly starts existing when we have to curse him but he no where to be heard when everyone’s having a blast. I don’t know about you Jill, but that’s what i call manipulative. And about the whole auora of CRUEILTY around that paragraph. God isn’t cruel, We are cruel to each other, we turn around and blame everything on him but, let’s look at this, “Africa is suffering because GOD has left Africa”, Africa is suffering because america and britain have outmined them from what ever mineral they had and still exploiting from the racial and community wars. It’s us not HIM.
4. Finally I don’t how or why you have stopped believeing in GOD but all I can personally say is I have not seen him nor heard of or from him but My HEART says he’s good guy and come out again a bit harsh, The subject “Religion study” obviously didn’t say what The LORD wanted you to hear.

Keep in touch and keep reading
I’am extremely sorry if this goes down hard
Thank you

P.S: yes, i do swear in the other blog and clearly asked the man and he actually said sorry and agreed to not swear because we are dealing with the LORD, and yes i’m thinking of closing the other blog because it’s kind of dumb considering i don’t hate many things in life at all.

27 09 2006
Jill

I JUST WROTE A MASSIVE REPLY AND IT DELETED.

Anyway, you obviously didnt understand my point, I will endeavour to explain:

1. I know PERFECTLY WELL that the bible can not be prooven. If it could you probably wouldnt need to convert and secondly, if it could be prooven you wouldnt need faith, or ‘believe’ as you put it. And if you dont need faith, well, then a lot of the notions in the bible are detrimental arent they? I wonder if the people who wrote it knew this, ‘cunning’ as I called them before. Perhaps they realised that this ‘opiate of the masses’ (Marx) was worth nothing because it couldnt be proved, and generally speaking, ideas that can not be proved are worth very little. But add the idea of faith….
So, I know that you can not prove the bible. What i am asking, is that you do not attempt to. By putting the quotes there to ‘simply to show people what i’m saying or showing them is not mumbo jumbo’ is essentially positioning them as evidence. Evidence, by sheer definition amounts to proof. Using quotes as evidence for your case for God, to support an idea of yours. This is foolish.
Perhaps you are using them to demonstrate that what you are saying about God is in line with what God is saying about himself. Fine, but do not use them as a rebuttal to peoples objective comments, THEY ARE NOT PROOF. They are not support for your case.

2. Do not draw paralells between archaeology and the Bible. One is largely agreed upon as academically scientific, the other, fundamentallly, is simple supersticion. To use your example: just because the article didnt provide details of proof, doesnt mean there isnt any. Archaeologists commonly date ruins through scientifically proven methods including carbon dating, dendrochronology, seismology, stratigraphy etc. These are proven to be accurate within a couple hundred years or so (reasonable, considering they’re millions of years old). These methods are then checked for accuracy through collaborative evidence, testing other materials from the same location, ancient records, knowledge of the area, a comnbination of methods etc. How do i know? History.
Archaeology is not based on random ideas or beliefs, it is based on interpretations of scientific data produced by ruins/artefacts.

3. DO NOT TELL ME WHAT I HAVE AND HAVE NOT EXPERIENCED. Remember you have only known me since mid yr 11, and still dont know me very well at that.
‘you obviously have had no chance really truly to even get to know god.’
I was a christian for some years, and a serious one at that. Ask anyone who’s known me long enough, ask my friends, my family. Look at the Christian Books and music in my room, read the quotes in permanent marker on my wall. I WAS A CHRISTIAN, WHETHER YOU ACKNOWLEDGE IT OR NOT, I KNOW WHAT I HAVE EXPERIENCED. I can relate to what you are trying to say, I once believed it as astutely as you do.

4. I have not contradicted myself, just READ IT AGAIN. I said that I ‘know more than most,’ and i believethis to be true given that i have been to church for some years, studied the religion at tafe, and researched it independantly in depth. The fact that i have spent longer and delved more indepth in to the religion in a variety of contexts and mediums than most, leads me to believe that I probably know more about the religion than most. Because you have not done this research and have the experience of time, i do not believe you see the bigger picture. I am in no way claiming that i know more than anyone. I never have made that claim.

5. How dare I? Bitu I am perfectly entitled to my opinion, and when you ask me to read your posts & comment, I will reply with my opinion, not what i want you to hear. Do not attack me for it, and do not take offence. If you want people to reply you must realise most of their opinions will be sceptical and opposing.

6. I am guessing your story of the carpenter & manager is aimed at my ‘more selfish than understanding’ comment. Just because you say, through a story, that God/Jesus is not because he ‘chooses’ us no matter who we are, I am not going to detract this view. You have not established anything. Essentially, you are saying how can Jesus be more selfish than understanding if he takes anyone as his disciple? Well Bitu, power. Power & selfishness go hand in hand. This is all considering there is a God, that its not just a consolidatory concept invented by powerful bureaucracies to enhance their influence.
I do not believe god is understanding, or merciful. But he sent his son to die for us? I dont believe that, but even if he did that does not justify the following occurences found in the bible:
“I have wiped out many nations, devastating their fortress walls and towers. Their cities are now deserted; their streets are in silent ruin. There are no survivors to even tell what happened.’ Zephaniah 3:6-10 NLT
“Go up, my warriors, against the land of Merathaim and against the people of Pekod. Yes, march against Babylon, the land of rebels, a land that I will judge! Pursue, kill, and completely destroy them, as I have commanded you,” says the LORD. “Let the battle cry be heard in the land, a shout of great destruction”. Jeremiah 50:21-22 NLT

There are many, many more. He seems tolerant.

7. I understand, and do not expect God to anwer selfish prayers such as “Oh!, god is so cruel, he didn’t buy me that car” or “Oh! I hate god now because he didn’t give me 99% in maths” I think that is ridiculous, and I firmly believe in doing things yourself, for yourself.
In a similar way, God has not started existing because things have gone wrong for me. You see for me that would be impossible, he wasnt there to start off with. You are making presumptions, assuming that because i los faith in Godit must be because something went wrong, i didnt get things my way, he didnt do something i wanted. WRONG.

8. Nor am i saying that the cruelty or evil or whatever you want to call it in this world is Gods fault. I am saying that God has a cruel sense of humour and a manipulative voice. Not that he has created wars, or poverty, or is responsible for them. I may, however, be lead to think that God is cruel through bible verses such as:
‘Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.’
Numbers 31:18 NLT
‘Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children’ Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT

Just read those over a few times, think about what they are saying, think about what I’m saying.

9. Why then do i say manipulative? Because i firmly believe that many churches, and indeed therefore Christians are manipulative. And as they claim ‘god is speaking to them’ or there guidance is the bible, either they, your religious teachers, brothers and sisters, are liars or God is manipulative. You choose.

10. I didnt take Studies of Religion (a compleltley neutral, unbiased, non-religious affiliated subject mind you) to have God speak to me, I took it to learn objectively about Christianity and other religions, so I had a greater understanding of them before i passed judgement.

11. It is kind of dumb, and kind of hypocritical, and kind of contradictory. As a christian, shouldn’t you be dealing with the Lord in all aspects of your life, not just those moments (or blogs) that suit you? At the moment, it doesnt appear that you are, and I dont know about you Bitu, but thats what i call manipulative. Afterall, I’ve been told god hates it when we call ourselves christian but don’t do what he really cares about.

Apologies, but I did warn you i was ardent.

27 09 2006
bob

wooo heres for an open mind!!!

27 09 2006
bob

doesnt it say somewhere in the bible, maybe the really important part, to love ur parents?

am i the only one who sees the hypocricy?

27 09 2006
Tom

Bitu before you post any more replys, THINK about what people are saying to you. THINK about the meaning if the sentences put forth to you. THINK about why they are putting these sentences up here. THINK about all of it before you act. You asked for our opinion, and we gave it to you. DO NOT TRY TO DISPROVE OUR OPINION. If you do, you go against everything YOU are saying is right. And by doing this, you are only digging yourself deeper into your own contradiction. And when you start actually thinking about things, think about what you are saying right now, and just how credible (or incredible) it really is.

27 09 2006
strider1989

Hey jill (. I don’t choose to comment on your other points because that was me being an idiot, This post is basically about our core discussion)

First starting off with an apollogy. which doesn’t mean that i’m not rebuttling.First you tell me ‘do not use(comments) them as a rebuttal to peoples objective comments’, Yet you use 3 quotes from the old testament to describe how ‘cruel’ god is. Also before i start I like the whole point form thing it’s cool:

1.Yes, OK! the bible cannot be proven, and yes maybe archeology was a bad example but, let’s take science(i can actually talk about this) for stance). Science believes to create this universe we live there was a massive ‘big bang’. Before that there was ‘Nothing’. And then suddenly out of no where. Matter and Antimatter collide and 500 billion’s later here us chating. How does that happen, don’t you ‘believe’ that there would be a driving force behind this. How can something be made of nothing that completly defies the Law of Conservation of Energy which clearly states that No matter can be created or destroyed. Well, If there is a driving force behind our creation aka god, then rn’t we technically forced to believe in God because if you let me reassmeble what you are saying “If it could you probably wouldnt need to convert and secondly, if it could be prooven you wouldnt need faith, or ‘believe’ as you put it”, doesn’t that mean that if god exists the bible is right in what ever it says and hey the god exists and bible says he exists. Again, you, me, tom,we are all matter right, Then how is it that out of no where these brillianly engineered creatures started appearing, ‘Evolution’ could be an anwser, except evolute from what. There was nothing there at the first to start of. I mean infront our eyes things that we take for granted, like take me for an example right: When i’m in my mum’s tummy i’m 3nano metres long and 2nm wide (2*10to the power of negative12 metres) and we literally look like kidney beans. How is it that I end up being 1.8 metres in 17 years. Don’t you kind of, think about for a sec., how does that work out,how do we function so well, everything inside us and outside work so well. GOD, and again not to repeat, since he exists, Bible is right, isn’t it.
2. I acknowledge that you may have been true hearted christian, and sorry to attack you previously, but all i’m saying is,and yes i do get the bigger picture, you may have studied GOD in depth alot but you say that ‘GOD wasn’ there to start off with’. So all i’m doing there is basically, if you allow me, compare my self to you because you as you said WERE a true christian, and i’vn’t been a christian for a very long time at all but he’s there for me. Through good or bad.And doesn’t that kind of latch on to what i was previously saying that he ‘Trust us’ and ‘Chose us ALL with out the reasoning of who we are or what we do.’ so there for technically may be he was there for you(i’m sorry if this is offencive again).

Here’s an example of what I utterly believe that was truely a miracle. Do you remember my dad in the crash. that was on a thursday, right. On that day, i wanted to stay home right because i wasn’t feeling too well, but outof no where HARRY, msges me says, ‘We have to do stuff for rugby’ and i listen to him. I mean HARRY, the guy doesn’t even know me. Now this might sound stupid, but If i stayed home i would been in passenger side of the car, and possibly in a vey deadly accident. Co-incident just like the big bang and “US”.
3. I’ve previously and i’m again apollagising for attacking you. I meant “WE” insteat of “U”
4. You say that he has a cruel sense of humour and is manupilative(I’am going to throw out some quotes here if you don’t mind):

“When Jesus saw her weeping, and the jews who had come along with her also weeping, he was deeply moved in spriit and troubled”
JOHN 11:33
I mean i have seen cruel sense of humour and that isn’t it. If god had a real sense of humour, he would probably would have made the ground split and then fell on his back and start laughing. But you see he didn’t…

Jesus wept
JOHN11:35

And also
Dictionary meaning of manipulating: “To control or influence cleverly, especially to your own advantage”

“Though you have made me see troubles, many and bitter, you will restore my life again; from the depths of the earth you will again bring me up”
PSALMS71:20
how in any way is that manipulative?Explain?
5. You say that he’s more cunning than compasionate?
“There you saw how the LORD your god carried you, as a father carries his son, all the way you went until you reached this place”

DEUTERONOMY1:31(NIV)
just tom point out: Cunning means: SLY, clever crafty or artful

HOW IS THAT NOT COMPASSIONATE?when compassion means ‘concerns for the suffering and the misfortune’.

What do you think of this one:
“Nothing can seperate us from God’s love-nor life or death, nor angel or spirits, not the present or the future, not the powers above or powers below. Nothing in all creation can seperate us from God’s Love for us in Christ Jesus or Lord”
ROMANS8:38-39

6.You say that he’s more selfish than understanding:

I came so everyone would have life, and have it in it’s fullest
JOHN10:10
I really don’t know what to say after that.

7. You also say that he’s not merciful:
Then why does he ask us to come to him so he can ‘Fix us”

Is anyone crying for help? God is listening, ready to rescue you

Psalms 34:17 (MSG)

Every morning, and noon, I cry out in distress, and he hears my voice

Psalms 55:17(NIV)

For he will rescue the poor who cry out and the affected who have no helper

Psalms 72:12(HCSB)

I long and yearn for the courts of the LORD; my heart and flesh cry out for the living god

Psalms 84:2(HSCB)

O lord, the god who saves me, day and night I cry out before you

Psalms 88:1(NIV)

And now coming back to the original point that “How god chose us, and not the other way around, so he kind of loves us why would he want to harm us”

The two most formost major commanments say: Love the Lord the God with all your heart, soul, mind. Well it says that:
By this every one will know that you are my disciple, as i formost and always will love you
JOHN umm..(get back to you on the verse and chapter)

Ok! I basically end with saying that God does exist, i totally repect your opinion and I am sorry for all the shrude things i said in the previous post Jill. No personel from Now on. And i say God Doesn’t hate us and i end with this quote:

Brother and sisters, think of what you were when you were called; Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many of nobal birth. But god chose the foolish things in the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things in the world to shame the strong. He chose the lowly things in the world-the despised thing-things that are not-to nulify the things that ARE, so no one can boast about it.
1 CORINTHIANS 1:26-29

Thank you
Keep reading and keep commenting

P.S. I don’t choose to comment on your other points because that was me being an idiot, This post is basically about our core discussion

28 09 2006
Mad

Ok I was invited, as an agnostic, to comment on these blogs…and I shall.

This, I thought, was rather ironic to say:

“We’re constantly surrounded with “voices” that are influencing us on how to think, feel, and behave.”

Think from other perspectives. I get sent e-mails on myspace from people I don’t even know, telling me to be Christian (or attempting to ‘save’ me). When I tell people I’m an agnostic, I fell like a leper. Now I’m not saying that Atheists and Agnostics are discriminated against and oppressed however there is a general consensus that we have no soul (or morals). Christian dogma, signs, and ‘saviours’ are PART of those ‘voices for me; distracting and coercing ME how to think, feel and behave.

Christians are too self absorbed. This is a perfect example of that. I’m not going to advocate sound pollution (or consumerism/commercialism run amok – which is really the issue here). However: deal with it. If you wanna ‘listen’ to God, read your book, sit in your church and talk to ‘him’! What you really want here is the opinions and ‘influences’ of other people, organisations and thought to shut up so YOURS can be louder.

How is an ad for Coke any better then a televised mass? Someone is still attempting to influence me and how I act/feel/think. It’s all the same

Just because you agree with Christianity (hell you live by it!), doesn’t mean you deserve to be any louder then any of the other ‘voices’ that attempt to coerce us.

28 09 2006
c-raig

i think this ‘blog’ is very unhelpful for all parties concerned. you guys kno im a massive jesus freak, but you know i dont force my opinions on you guys (im not aiming this at bitu im aiming this at every1 here). fair enough you guys all have your own opinions on life and living and the only way we will know 100% whos right when we die. you guys all bringing your opinions in here is just gonna cause tension between you guys and break up friendships and just cause hassle….thats my opinion, ohh crap i jus contradicted my ‘no opinions’ clause,…..my bad

28 09 2006
bob

man ur arguments have so substance becasue there aint 10 quotations which woudl turn ur argument from opinion into fact.

28 09 2006
bob

oooo and lets get all scientific (jstu copying someon else)
quote “How can something be made of nothing that completly defies the Law of Conservation of Energy which clearly states that No matter can be created or destroyed.”

COBE discovered the comsic microwave background spectrum, whcih fits in exactly into what woudl have happened if there was a big bang, essentially saying that there WAS a big bang.

“There was nothing there at the first to start of. I mean infront our eyes things that we take for granted, like take me for an example right: When i’m in my mum’s tummy i’m 3nano metres long and 2nm wide (2*10to the power of negative12 metres) and we literally look like kidney beans.”

where did u come from? nothing aswell? or have u always been in ur mothers tummy?

29 09 2006
Mitch

Wow guys…Tell us what you really think! (Don’t actually, that was just a way of sarcastically agreeing with Craig) This is really not helping anyone!
And i thought we were all getting along so well last night… Oh well i’ll catch u guys later.

29 09 2006
strider1989

Hey to all the guys i’ll reply to guys to you later about the actuall core discussion
Including: MAD, Jill and i don’t why but Mr. BOB.
this is for mitch and c-raig. Mate we are still great buddies, craig and mitch, me madision and jill, we’re not going to stop being friends over this argument. Umm. It’s just different opnions from people that don’t believe in simlar things as me. and i want that because i wanted non-christian on my ideas as well as the christian. I know craig you were going to tell Jo about this site but mitch or craig just tell her, I want her views as well

Please keep reading the blog for future post
I haven’t been able to post anything lately because as you can see there is a massive argument going on which i like, so i’m planning to do one soon.
So keep reading the blog
And to all the guys from MY Y12 2006, you guys are the bomb, Please keep in touch.
thank you

29 09 2006
Mitch

I think every1 just has 2 aree 2 disagree! Getting more people involved isn’t going to help change other peoples opinions, it’s just going to cause more tension in the “argument”. (By the way i do realise that by me writing in the blog it is getting more people involved but i’m trying to stop the whole thing before somebody or everybody gets hurt).
Thanx B2, ur the bomb 2 mate.

29 09 2006
billy

lets keep it going

heres some more wisdom from the bible: wisdom

PRO 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.

ECC 1:18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

1 Cor.1:19: “For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and wil bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”

which verse do i listen to? which one is right? they are BOTH in the bible.

30 09 2006
Jill

I agree Bitu on the personal thing. Please note that when i say ‘you’ i am referring to Christians. Also when you say ‘you,’ i take it as non-christians or agnostics/humanists/athiests/other non-religious philosphies not as me personally. If it is something aimed at me directly just say Jill and ill get the picture.

Anyway, a lot of what you said didnt actually help disproove anything that i was saying. Essentially, bible quotes were put up there to try and disprove the bible quotes i put up. All that is showing is a massive contradiction in the Bible. It nearly seems that this ‘God’ of yours took on the world and won it over in the old testament through wars, killing, rape and pillaging and a number more crimes against humanity (that is actually what these acts are referred to as today). Then once the autocracy of fear was established, then maybe we have time for a few words – and note i say words, not acts – of love. Manipulative, selfish, cruel.

CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY = not so loving, and this is what im learning from the Bible you are striving so hard to prove as correct.For what i am told is the word of a divine being, its fairly faulty, careless almost, espescially when you consider this ‘correct bible’ points him out as perfect.

You see it is a lot easier for me to whack bible verses up there because i am more than happy to point out the faults and contradictions of the bible. For a Christian however, not a great idea.

Additionally, when I put up bible verses it was to used to contradict what you were saying through the same medium. For example, when people put up quotes from the bible saying this shows he is loving, instead of tryng to convince them he is not through my opinion & ‘real’ examples, i would rather put up quotes from the bible showing he is not. That way i am showing the fault in the source, which means that what they are saying is not credible. And when you consider that the bible is the primary basis of Christianity, discrediting the bible is a means of discrediting humanity. I do not put up biblical verses as proof of my opinion, but as a way of demonstrating a flaw in both your arguments & source.

On another note, as Bob pointed out, nothing you tell me about God ‘having to exist’ and therefore the bible ‘must be true’ is going to change my opinion because God does not HAVE TO exist. The bible is not made immediately correct because god HAS TO exist. He might exist, he might not. You believe he does. I would like to believe he doesnt, because if he does i sure dont believe hes who you want him to be. In short, A BIBLE VERSE IS NEVER, EVER GOING TO CONVINCE ME I’M WRONG. Saying god is compassionate because he did this, is not going to work because 1. I dont think the bible is credible and 2. I dont nessecarilly believe God exists, but if he does, and i already mentioned this, i dont think he is who Christians believe he is.

Also i feel we should clear this up: I dont have any issues with the ethical teachings of Christianity, as a moral code it has a lot to offer, hence many will recognises the basis of the constitution in many ‘Christian’ fundamentals (although in my opinion we have Buddhism, Bahai and many other more tolerant religions to thank just as much). However, as a religion, and as a religious movement – and you may have guessed this – I’m not a fan.

Lets summarise that paragraph and make sure we’ve all grasped it: FUNDAMENTAL ETHICS (this is not necessarilly all teachings of Christianity) of Christianity = good. Religious movement = dont get Jill started.

Anyway I will be taking a break from cyber debate for i will be on a camp for a week, dont believe I’ve left through defeat, oh no, but as far as im concernced this God character can wait. I’ve got a HSC to fail.

30 09 2006
Jill

Hello again.

Bitu i can see that your making an effort to be respecting & accepting of other peoples opinions. Good Job.

Also can you please try and reply to all of madisons comments? They go back a way, on a few different posts but if you could answer them you would shut a good proportion of us up. I think anyone who is arguing against you is basically going to agree with madison, and hes a lot more experienced & better at versing it then us (or atleast me) so they are alot clearer and to the point.

thanks

1 10 2006
strider1989

Hey guys,
It’s been a while, and today i’m going to try to reply to every one here.
Firstly
Dear BOB:
I do not understand what you are saying because i studied cosmic radiations, which was basically used not by COBE but by CERN in sweden essentially to prove that there WAS a big bang, so there for your ‘counter’ didnot really do anything about my facts, because I’m not saying that there wasn’t a big bang, i’m saying there was a big bang but, the scientists have not been able to prove that how two different types matter started existing out of nowhere, i.e. there must be a driving force.
And what are trying to say with my quote of me in my mummy’s tummy, i don’t undestand, because you are kind of emphasing what i’m saying by ‘Where did you come from’, because that’s WHAT asking, ‘Where did we come from’. And NO, i havn’t been in my mummy’s tummy all the time, It’s just my ghost talking and writing this posts.UHHH…., again what ARE you saying. In my comment to Jill i pointeed out to her that, we, infront of our eyes are miracles, because, we grow (INSERT that WHOLE quote again HERE).
Thank You Bob for reading
Keep in touch and if this blog offends you in any way i’m sorry.
Cya l8er

1 10 2006
strider1989

Hey jill,
I don’t think this will be going anywhere because you are quoting from the Old testament which is basically “FOLLOW ME OR ELSE I’LL SLAUGHTER YOU” and i’m quoting from thie new testament saying “FOLLOW ME OR IT’S YOUR OWN LOSS”.
I think we are coming out with equally good comebacks but quoting bible from here and there is not going to help. Here is my thought on the OLD vs NEW

I think the old testament was basically what WE, as in humans, used to be like and the bible says why god was angry at us. and the new testament is basically what Jesus/God will do to change it(US). If you understand what i mean. Like The old testament describes how we are so distant and becoming more and more distant from him, and the new testament is basicaly the “BRIDGE” between the gap. That is why there huge amount of difference between the OLD and New.

Thanks Jill
I would like end our argument for this post here, which does not mean that you stop writing and reading the blog.
Keep in touch and have Fun at camp, here from you soon. CYA

1 10 2006
strider1989

Oright before i Get on to responding to MAD’s comment, i would before like to answer billy’s comment.
Hey billy, welcome to the blog and the MASSIVE argument,

Billy you are absoultly right in questioning which one is correct since they are all in the bible, that’s how i used to be and still am for somethings, Here is my thought on those quotes:

PRO 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.

This quotes is simple and basically states with wisdom comes knowledge and with knowledge comes understanding.

ECC 1:18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

Ever heard of the quotes “Ignorance is s bliss”. This quotes says that as, even in this modern world, we seek that correct wisdom to enhance our knowledge and “IQ”. but we don’t understand that the wisdom we seek will not give happiness in return, Instead when god want’s us to seek the wisdom in himself and be enlightened by “Loving” eachother and God.

1 Cor.1:19: “For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and wil bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”

As the wisdom grows in a man there mind starts playing tricks with them, he starts using the given “Wisdom” for WRONG. That is what god says to you, do not try to find the wisdom in this world, find wisdom in each other and in ME.

billy, no one quote is correct, but you must understand that THEY ARE CONNECTED to one another like a peices of a puzzle

Thanx for reading my blog, and keep reading
sorry for late response
Cya l8er

1 10 2006
strider1989

Hey MAD, finally, have been waiting to repond to your comment for ages, so HERE it is:

1. i’m not tring to “Commersalise” anything here. As i said to you on the bus this is MY BLOG(something that you write your OPINIONS on by the way) and also I wanted your comment not so i can shut you up but only so I can see what your VIEWS are on my thoughts. As you can see above, me and jill, had a pretty big argument but no one really won, and that’s what your trying to enforce, rn’t you, that i’m trying to win, but NO i clearly want your opinions.

2. Personally i haven’t recieved those emails but i will take your word for it. All these people who send you those emails are doing are following what their LORD, Jesus, told them to do, Spreading the name of christaninty. And well, the “SAVE” part, well, Bible basically in a nut shell says that “MY WAY is the BEST WAY”. So those e-mails are basically tring to enforce what the bible says.
3. I would like to Madison how many of these “SAVE” mails do you get in a day. Do you want to know what really is “distracting and coercing ME how to think, feel and behave” are those “COKE” and Other food adds: Honestly telling you on Foxtel TV. there is atleast, wait for it, 200-300 Macca’s AD’s on from 6:00 am to 12:00 PM, that’s what is ‘distractive’. You know what also is anoying is when you got to your email and you find 15 “Horny WIFE alone at home, comes have SEX” mails you delete them. 10 minutes later your messenger rings up saying “You recieved 10 mails from “HORNY WIFE””.

Thanx for reading this blog mate and keep reading
Sorry for the late response
Cya l8er

1 10 2006
Jo

I am making my long awaited appearance on this blog, and wow is it hectic.

Good on you Bitu for getting this debate going, i think its great for y’all to challenge and investigate into the bible and God.

1 10 2006
strider1989

Hi Jo,
welcome, and yes it has got a bit hectic now but that’s a good thing.

Thanx for reading the blog and keep reading for future post
Keep in touch and JO have fun at camp and say from me to every one including Mark.
Cya l8er

1 10 2006
Mad

Bitu you COMPLETELY avoided what I was saying.

But never mind, I’m used to this. Try not to adress my examples and anlogies too much, they are there to reinforce my point, which you didn’t address at all.

My point in a nut shell:

You are criticising the “voices” in the world that smother the “voice” of God. These voices are from other people and thought opposed to yours. What you REALLY hate is that the voices are smuthering what YOU believe and what YOU want other people to hear.

Remember we live in a secular society.

1 10 2006
c-raig

c-raig in the house y’all…(im black)… i wanna hear other peoples opinions on this topic. if there is no god, how do you think we were created, why do you think we were created, and how come physically we were made perfect for this world. i jus wanna hear opinions… opinions are like rock paper scissors, they all have their pros and cons. how insightful am i…..very is the correct answer to the question at hand. and another thing…whats the deal with public restrooms, i mean is it socially acceptable to leak waste fluids out your man bits standing at arms length from a complete stranger?….

1 10 2006
strider1989

Hey madison,
No i didn’t completly miss your point. You are saying that I can’t handle “other” voices that are opposing my believes, and if you are refering the “VOICE” to this blog then let me tell you that this blog isn’t a “VOICE”, i asked you to come here, i didn’t advertise it or bring you in through a different channel. Before we go any where in this conversation, I have to tell you I’m not trying to enforce anything on anyone. And as for ‘Smothering what you believe”, My believe is god, and i say that the distraction are the T.V. and the internet, but you have to undertand God’s power compared to the “Commersalising powers” is nothing so technically they aren’t really doing anything to “my believes”. So let me straighten it out. I say: God is trying to approach us, “Other” things are stopping “you” to reach him. You oppose saying: No, I(BITU) am only saying that because in this modern world god’s “voice” is too low and i am trying to get it louder and saying that the “Other things” are smothering my believes. I counter: No, they cannot be smother my believes becasue i believe in God and he is much too powerfull to let his “Believes” too be smashed by foolish “Comercialised powers”

Thanx and keep reading
Cya mate

1 10 2006
strider1989

And craig, hahahahahha, What….., hahahaha
where did that come from

1 10 2006
Jill

Bitu…

‘God’s power compared to the “Commersalising powers” is nothing’

Swap it around buddy, sounds a bit bad like that, when you read it with your examples its basically ‘gods power is nothing compared to the power of maccas’ or ‘Gods power, compared to the power of coke, is nothing’

Mind you i agree completely.

1 10 2006
Jill

also i dont think us growing is a miracle. At all.

Craig i have answers for you but you must wait, i havent any time. CAMP CAMP CAMP

4 10 2006
strider1989

Hey jill, By the time you read this I hope you are back from camp, and hope you and everyone elese who went had fun.

i don’t understand what you mean Jill”

1. Either you mean i should write as “Commersalising power is nothing compared to God’s power”
2. Or you mean Comersalling power does actually have more power than God
I think you (1) but just wanted to make sure.

Also, of course we are miracle, Why is that at birth that we have 305 bones and at adulthood 206 bones. Once you think about two solid things, how do they fuse, i mean these are our bones, strongest parts in our body.How is it that, whether it is from smallest bone, stirrup bone inside the ear, to our largest bone, femur (thigh bone), how is it they work peacefully and work WELL is most important point.

4 10 2006
strider1989

oright guys readmy new articles as it would have my scientific reaseach and view on god

4 10 2006
Mad

*sigh*

Bitu swings and misses!!!!

Nice try, but read over what i read again. You will have to try to empathise a little. Think: perspective.

As for C to the Raig.

“if there is no god, how do you think we were created(1), why do you think we were created(2), and how come physically we were made perfect for this world(3)”

First of all the question is fundementally flawed considering that you are asking non-believer- who dont believe we were “created” at all. But any how.

1. Good question Craig. I don’t know. I have no idea. I accept that fact that we will NEVER know. It is beyond our knowing. I believe in evolution- but how did the universe come into being? How did the first single cell organism- the first and most basic step in our evolution- come into being? I don’t know, and neither do you. Now we have 3 options here:
i. Attempt to answer with logic and science (eg Big Bang)
ii. Attempt to answer by manufacturing an answer (God)
iii Admitt they we may just never be able to understand (agnostic-me:) )

2. Now I dont think we were created as such- so the question of why is irrelevent. Why does there have to be a why? Can’t we JUST be?

3. Evolution. If we don’t need something, then overtime we can lose it. Simple. And perhaps you focus to much on what does fit, instead of what doesn’t.

Tail bone?- why?
Disease- at first we are vulnerable- over time we develope to resist it. Why?
Most of the world is covered by ocean- where we CANT survive- most water is salt, which we CAN’T drink
Poisonous plants that look like food?
Goosebumps- pointless on humans. Supposed to raise hair to create insulation, however on an mostly hairless creature it has no purpose.

Now I am getting into semantics- but we are hardly PERFECT for this world. We fit in nicely because we have evolved -or adapted- to.

I leave with this thought:

One are one planet orbiting one star.

Our galaxy is 100,000 light years across. That means-travelling at a speed which theoretically would require infinite energy- it would STILL take 100,000 years to cross.

Typical galaxies contain ten million to one trillion stars.

There are probably more than a hundred billion galaxies in our observable universe.

On 12 hr clock face representing the entire history of our planet, then the entire history of mankind would represent that last 100th of a second on taht clock face.

Do you seriouly think that us and our numerous beliefs hold any significants at all?

4 10 2006
strider1989

Hi, madison, how are we not perfect, I, since you didn’t read my scientific article as a whole, have take a sniplet out of to prove to you that our creation is perfect:
Are we just lucky to have millions of goldilocks conditions that made life possible on the Earth? If the Earth is a little of bit closer or farther from the Sun, its surface temperature would be too hot or too cold for the existence of life. Its atmospheric gases also have the JUST-RIGHTcombination so that they can block most harmful radiation from the Sun while allowing visible light to pass through. The location of our solar system in the Milky Way Galaxy is also just right. If it were close to the galactic center, it would expose to significant amount of harmful radiation from other stars. If too far away, the Sun would not have enough “metals” (defined by astronomers as the elements heavier than helium) for the creation of planets. Theists believe these fine-tunings are the intelligent design by God, but atheists think we are just lucky: our universe contains billions of stars and planets, each having different characteristics; our Sun and Earth just “HAPPENED” to possess all of the right characteristics.

Now, consider the fine-tuning of physical constants. If the electromagnetic force were 4 percent weaker, there would be no hydrogen (BASIC BUILDING BLOCK OF MANKIND) atom. If protons were 0.2 percent heavier, they could decay into neutrons and the atom would fall apart. The strong nuclear force must be tuned to within 1%, otherwise carbon (ANOTHER BASIC BUILDING BLOCK) cannot be formed. The weak nuclear force must also be tuned to a narrow range in order to produce heavy elements. To explain these fine-tunings, atheistic scientists assume that the whole universe (bulk universe) may contain almost infinite number of sub-universes (braneworlds), each having a different set of physical constants. Our braneworld just HAPPENED to have the right physical constants.

What a great coincidence!

READ THE ARTICLE MADISON
CYA

5 10 2006
Mad

Bitu.

a) Find out what perfect means or stop waisting my time. ONE problem= NOT PERFECT. I gave several.

b) Yeh, we are lucky. So? Did you read my post at all?

Ok I get it, the odds against our existence are massive. More massive then massive. HUGE, but there is an odd and that’s all that matters. Let me explain.

In the Trillions beoyond Trillians (actually certainly more; what beyond Trillion?) of planets, orbiting one of the ten million to one trillion stars that can be found in ANY ONE of teh 100 billion galaxies in our OBSERVABLE universe (and then the galaxies too far away to see), ONE, just ONE of those planets is BOUND to have the right distance, right size, right star, right moon (which does make a difference) right nieghbouring planets, right position in a Galaxy, right atmosphere and conditions for life. SIMPLE.

In fact there there are BOUND to be more, many, many more.

Please, just THINK how MASSIVE the universe is……why it is….infinite!

9 10 2006
c-raig

wooo im back baby. madison you have some interesting thoughts i hadnt thought about (ie goosebumps, salt water not able to replenish us etc) so congrats for backing up your argument and for using ye olde PEEL method. Point – make your point E- example E-explain? L- link to the question, madison madison madison…….looks like english is gonna be a piece of cake for you. not heaps sure what point im trying to make…..thats all i have to say, and if u dont like it, read a bible (not sure)! rambling i am. piece out (i realise i spelt ‘peace’ wrong, its how i do)

PS madison didnt use the PEEL method i am wrong, if only i could go back and rewrite it.

c to the raig

14 01 2012
Air Max 95

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